Episode 114: How to Connect & Communicate in a Cross-Cultural World with Tayo Rockson

 
 
 

Leaders, do you want to know how to better connect and communicate with your cross-cultural team?

On today’s episode of the improve it! pod, Erin is excited to bring on Tayo Rockson - a writer, speaker, consultant, podcaster, poet, professor, co-founder and brand strategist at UYD Management, a strategic consulting firm that empowers organizations to incorporate sustainable diversity and inclusion practices.

On today’s episode, Erin and Tayo discuss:

  • Why understanding the importance of cross-cultural communication is so important as a leader

  • Challenges organizations face when it comes to cross cultural communication

  • What you can stop and start doing as a leader to better communicate in a cross-cultural world

More about Tayo: As the son of a diplomat, Tayo grew up understanding the nuances of multicultural diversity while living on four continents. He leveraged his experiences to establish himself as an authority in communicating effectively across cultures and personal branding. He graced various stages to share his knowledge including TEDx, the prestigious Chautauqua Institution, and the United Nations.

 

Tayo is the host of As Told by Nomads, a podcast ranked in the top 5 tier of the Top 25 Business Podcasts for Entrepreneurs on Entrepreneur.com. He’s the author of Use Your Difference To Make A Difference and a professor at the prestigious Imperial College Business School as well as Felician University.

In 2020, he launched the national anti-racism campaign called #LetsTalkBias. In 2021, Tayo was named in Remote Weekly’s list of The 100 Most Influential Remote Experts and starred in the award winning movie, IMPACT which is about three people who embark on a personal journey to transform the way they communicate on their quest to impact the world.

 Hit play on this tangible episode and drop us a line at info@learntoimproveit.com to tell us what you think!

Show Links:

Connect with Tayo Rockson:

FIND THIS EPISODE ON:

Apple | Spotify | Stitcher | Android

 

Connect with Erin Diehl: 

Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award. 

This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre. 

When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl. 

You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online! 

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If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing this podcast! This helps Erin support more people – just like you – move toward the leader you want to be. Click here, click listen on Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with 5 stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let Erin know what you loved most about the episode! Also, if you haven’t done so already, subscribe to the podcast. That way you won’t miss any juicy episodes! Thanks in advance, improve it! Fam :) 

 

Episode 114 Transcription
Erin (00:01):

Oh, improve it! Peeps. I have a show for you. The one, the only Tayo Rockson is here and here is how Tayo is improving it. First and foremost Tayo is a writer, speaker, consultant, podcaster, professor co-founder and brand strategist at U I D management, which is a strategic consulting firm that empowers organizations to incorporate sustainable diversity and inclusion practices. Now, as the son of a diplomat, Tayo grew up understanding the nuances of multicultural diversity while living on four continents, you're gonna hear the word nuance, and you're gonna hear about him living on four continents today. He leveraged these experiences to establish himself as an authority in communicating effectively across cultures and personal branding. He graced various stages to share his knowledge, including TEDx, which is awesome. The prestigious Chatauqua institution and the United nations. Now Tayo is the host of a podcast called as told by nomads, which I was lucky enough to be a guest on.

Erin (01:07):

And that podcast is ranked in the top five tier of the top 25 business podcast for entrepreneurs on entrepreneur.com. He's the author of the book. Use your difference to make a difference in a professor at the prestigious Imperial college business school, as well as Felician university. Now in 2020, he launched the national anti-racism campaign called hashtag less talk bias in 2021 Tayo was named in remote weekly's list of the 100 most influential remote experts and starred in the award winning movie impact, which is about three people who embark on a personal journey to transform the way they communicate on their quest to impact the world. Tayo is one. I always love our guests, but I was a guest on his show and I just walked away feeling so energized. And I feel the same way today. He is a light. He is a joy. He is really using his difference to make a difference.

Erin (02:04):

And if you are a leader who leads a cross-cultural team, then stay tuned because we are gonna talk about so many things. He first and foremost really gives us some really strong acronyms and best practices on how you can better communicate cross, cross culturally. That's a tongue twister and your organization talk about some of the challenges we see in the workplace when it comes to communicating cross-culturally with invisible disabilities. And then we talk about some of the things that you can stop and start doing as a leader to help connect and communicate in a cross-cultural world. Let's just dive right in. Here's the one Themi Tayo Roxon are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new, innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers team building exercises and activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out?

Erin (03:16):

Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of the same old, dry, boring leadership books and ice breakers that aren't actually working? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv, entertainer, failfluencer, and professional zoombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. In this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development team building effective communication, networking, presentation, skills, leadership training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transform their business, their leadership, and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun, welcome to improve it! The podcast. Tayo, welcome to the improve it podcast. I'm gonna keep my day job. Thank you so much for being here.

Tayo (04:36):

<Laugh> <laugh> Hey, it's my pleasure. It's okay. Singing is a great way to, to start anything.

Erin (04:43):

Oh, and I love, you know what you have like I'm, I'm seeing you on camera. We've talked on your show, but you have such a awesome voice. Like if I'm, if I'm a listener right now, I'm just closing my eyes. I'm like, wow, just love your voice. You have like a fun energy for the podcasting webs. So you've got it better than this, this nasal twang thing I've got going on. So

Tayo (05:06):

What you talking about? Everybody, everybody's got an accent, everybody's got an accent.

Erin (05:09):

I love it. No yours. Yours is better improve it! Peeps. You're welcome. You're welcome from his voice today because you're getting a reprieve. You're getting a reprieve from this. So, all right. I wanna start off because I, I, we met as I was a guest on your show as told by Noma, which is a fantastic show. We're gonna link to that in the show notes for our audience too. I wanna play a fun little game, just so our audience can get to know you a little bit. Let's do it. All right. And it's called five facts. So it's got a little Diddy cuz you know, I like to sing and I'm just gonna do it. And then I want you to give us five facts about you that we couldn't find on the Innerwebs. We couldn't find on your bio, your LinkedIn profile, all the things. So I'll do that little Diddy. It goes like this five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts. Let's go.

Tayo (05:57):

Let's go. Let's go.

Erin (05:59):

What's number one?

Tayo (06:00):

So I'm a hot sauce. A fishing auto. One of my actual dreams. Yes. One of my dreams is to be on the show, hot ones. I don't know if that one has ever watched that show. It's it's a show on YouTube. They, they basically bring on all these celebrities to answer questions. And as each question gets answered, the, the sauce gets hotter. And so I, yeah, I love doing that. And, and I do this thing in myself where, you know, they sell the hot sauces at the end of the show. And so one of them is the extra extra mean green pucker. But, but, but,

Erin (06:35):

And just so you know, he's lifting it up and on camera right now. If you're listen, you can't see it. Okay.

Tayo (06:40):

<Laugh> yeah. And then there's this sauce called the bomb, which sounds just as hot as it's and you know, I'm one of those people. I, I'm not, I know some people like taste, but the hotter, the better, I like that, that torturous feeling because I know I'm gonna conquer something. Yeah. So that's one fact. OK. Second, second fact. I wanted to be a basketball player growing up. What was the third one I grew, I mean, I think everybody knows this, but I grew up on five countries, continents. I'm fourth. I'm I'm an art, I'm an art collector. And then fifth, I am part of big brother of big sisters. I've been, I've been a, a mentor since 2017.

Erin (07:19):

Wow. I love that organization. Okay. Well you nailed that. Yeah. You nailed that. Yeah. And I love that fact that I just found out about you also, I knew that you love basketball because what I was on your show and I'm just gonna tell the, we call our audience the improvement pees. When I was on your show, I was eyeballing that teal shoe sneaker behind you, which is underneath your Lakers Jersey, which is again, you can't see this if you're just listening to the show, but I really want your teal sneakers. So acres. So we're gonna, we're gonna, I told you one day, I'm coming to New York. We're gonna that's it's gonna happen. Or it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna be mine. It's gonna be mine.

Tayo (07:57):

It's gonna be yours. And for those who are not watching on YouTube, this is the she's referring to the LeBron eight south beach edition. Right? So that, that is what we're talking about. It's it's supposed to mimic the south beach colorways for the sneakerheads over there. So

Erin (08:13):

There so beautiful. It's like a, it's like a trophy. Put that, put, keep that in your zoom profile. Okay. <Laugh> so, all right, well let's do this. I like to start each show too, by setting an intention. So what is one intention, a one word intention that you want to give to our audience today? What's one intention. One word

Tayo (08:35):

Nuance.

Erin (08:37):

Ooh.

Tayo (08:38):

Yeah. Yeah. I'm my mission statement is your difference to make a difference. It's the title of my book. It's my mission statement. But I, I feel like we live in a binary world. Actually, so we live in a nuanced world governed by binary systems. And, and so I think the more we appreciate that we have multiple aspect and layers to ourselves, the better we'll be able to be to ourselves and to each other.

Erin (09:00):

I love that. And I know people say this and it makes me wanna throw up in my mouth every time, but I just got chills cuz I really did. That was special. That, and you

Tayo (09:10):

Gotta turn the heater on. I know why

Erin (09:13):

Yourself

Tayo (09:13):

I'm cold is all this chill. Like what we

Erin (09:16):

<Laugh> I know, right? Everybody's like, I just cried. I just got no, but literally nuance is a perfect word for you. I feel like that is when I was researching you, which is fun because I've been on your show. And I, I now feel like I kind of know you a little bit. I was like, what a good guy and you really?

Tayo (09:34):

Oh, oh my gosh. Yeah. So much pressure. <Laugh> so much

Erin (09:37):

Pressure. Yeah. He's gonna be awful. No, I'm just kidding. This is, you are just so special in how you have used some of the differences that you've had to experience in your life to make positive change in the world around you. And I wanna say thanks because that's the kinda world I wanna live in. And also I got a three year old almost and that's the kinda world I want him to live in and I'm, and so we're just setting it up, you know, you're setting up, setting it up. So let's go back to one of your fun, your fun five facts. So you said and this is something that we did know, but I will give that one to you. Okay. Thank

Tayo (10:11):

I know I gotta find one more. Oh, my favorite book is the Alchemist. My favorite book is the Alchemist. There we go. We replaced

Erin (10:17):

That there it's. There we go. Boom, boom. OK. So you did grow up though in five countries for continents and yeah. You used the fuel by behind what you called your identity crisis. Like you said, to help your difference to make a difference. So yeah, you also said you're a third culture kid, which is someone who spent the formative part of their childhood years outside of their parents' culture.

Tayo (10:41):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative>

Erin (10:43):

So there that's a lot of places to live. Right. Were there any places that you lived that were, were just really transformational for you? That really cause I, I definitely know. You know, this was like you said, you're a third, third culture kid, but is there space or a special time that really transformed your thinking and really allowed you to think the way that you do now?

Tayo (11:09):

You know, I've thought about this a lot. Cause I always get different variations, you know, sometimes say, oh, where's your favorite place? What changed your life the most? And the way I broke it down is Nigeria always has my heart. Right? It's a huge part of my identity, the name, you know, how I look where I'm from a lot of what I identify with in terms of, of traditions and, and, and culture. I felt like kin of Faso, which is a French speaking country, west Africa was where I started to get a sense of who I wanted to be. You know, I, I really started studying, you know, a lot of the leaders I admire, you know, Nelson Mandela, the late Nelson medal, Oprah Winfrey and, and you know, I really got into basketball and that was when I was like, I'm gonna do this.

Tayo (11:49):

And then you know, in, in high school, when I came back Nigeria, it was, it was a real test of what I, I decided that I was gonna be, because when I came back, it was more like, you sure that you can do this. This is not what we normally accept. And then when I, when I went to United States, when I was 17, it, it, that was probably the most transformative because I, I could get to take everything I learned. And I signed a contract for myself. I basically said, I gotta stop trying to fit into multiple, you know, identities here. I just gotta accept that. I'm all of my experiences, my lived experiences. And it's okay if other people don't understand, but it's more important for me to accept who I am and be, be okay with them. And so maybe that, that, that decision at 17 was the most important, but it really was a combination of all those things. Cuz you know, I was swinging on one pendulum to go here and fit in and coming out here where I really couldn't even try to fit in, even if I tried, but then yeah. At the pushback. And then I was like, oh, stop it. It's

Erin (12:52):

That is OK. Wait so 17, were you a junior in high school? Senior. What year was that?

Tayo (12:57):

So I grew, you know, in Nigeria, a lot of students graduate early compared to United States. Yeah. So I, I was 17. I just graduated. And then I was a month away from a month or two away from being 18, but I, I, I landed in Virginia for my college. And so yeah,

Erin (13:14):

That is crazy. And how awesome at such a young age that you were able to put that, that contract with yourself into place. I love that. And maybe you didn't say that then, and now you say that was the contract, but you signed a deal. I mean that is, that is awesome.

Tayo (13:29):

Yeah, I did. I, you know, so Erim, I think a lot of people listening, this who have had to up quickly, I grew up under initially dictatorships before we move, we transitioned to civilian rule. And so you, you, you learn like the rules quickly and I'm the oldest. So your family, your parents would tell you, you gotta do this in case I'm not here. And then so <laugh>, I didn't really know any other way from being honest. I was always one of those people that was, I was thinking about the future as well as the present and how I wanted to show up in that because I knew people were watching me in my family and outside of that. So yeah, I grew up quickly.

Erin (14:07):

I believe it.

Tayo (14:08):

It's probably what I'm very childlike now. You know, I feel like I have a lot of that childlike energy <laugh>, which is without being child <laugh>

Erin (14:15):

It keeps you young. It keeps you young wait. Okay. So I have two thoughts about what you just said too. So also you said some of your heroes earlier on you said were, were Oprah Winfrey. That's why I know we're like kindred spirits cuz that's my, I mean I have her sitting on a sandwich. I have this picture of her. It's called celebs on sandwiches and she's sitting at my office, she's on a Caprice sandwich and I look at her every day cause I'm like, oh my God, I love you. Love you. Love you. And I also think too, how many, how many siblings did you have being the oldest?

Tayo (14:45):

I have two younger brothers.

Erin (14:47):

Two younger brothers. OK. So you were like in charge that's a lot. And I, I think being the oldest, I'm also the oldest and I just have a younger brother, but it's so interesting. Birth order plays such a role in not only you had so many experiences that I had never had, but you also were the oldest. So you felt really responsible probably for your siblings for yourself. And I think it's okay to bring that childlike energy now. I think that's totally okay. Oh,

Tayo (15:16):

You know, it's so funny. I've always been this hyper kid, this guy who always did this, but there were moments when I was having the identity crisis where it was used against me. Right. You know, like just, you know, like who, what, you know, why you always so energetic and I wasn't a bad student. I was a good student. So I was always that complexity. I was a good student. I played sports, but I was basically, I could be a class clown if I, you know, if I wanted to be an people would be like, ha sit down. <Laugh> yes. And so, yeah. And so it's, it's, it's so fascinating now with the career I have in doing the most, because I do, because I was told so many times that that was not, if I kept doing this, I wouldn't be successful. And then here you find out different ways to express your energy. And so I think that's why one of the, it's one of the reasons I really don't like the idea of limited, you know, I really fight against oppression and, and suppression because I felt suppressed and oppressed multiple times.

Erin (16:08):

Yeah. And then you're changing constantly your environment with your energy. So I can imagine that's like, who am I in this new space? I, but you have found a wonderful way to channel who you are, which I think is so fantastic. He you'll hear in the bio. You've heard it in the bio. So successful

Tayo (16:29):

<Laugh> oh my gosh. Thank you.

Erin (16:31):

Can I say the flip side of that? Because in improv, we have a saying that if you fail, there are no mistakes. There are only gifts. If you can see over here, I got this fail. Yeah. You know, sign behind me in my little podcast closet. And it really just means that when you have a setback, you don't look, it doesn't on stage. If you say something wrong in a scene, or if like you make a mistake and you're, you know, your scene partner notices, you don't discount it, you bring it into the scene, you make it a part of the scene. And that's sort of metaphorical for life, I think is really something sets you back. Something makes you have to stop in your tracks and not move forward. Instead of being like, ah, I'm stopping, I'm stopping you, bring it in, you make it a part of your life. And I know you've had some, some setbacks, probably many along this journey. So what, what is like one of the if you could just pinpoint a moment maybe yes. In your career or just even before that, as you're going through all of these moves, what was, what's something that really stands out to you as a moment where you had a huge setback, but you learned and you brought it in, you made it a part of the scene of your life. What is something?

Tayo (17:43):

I mean, so the first, I mean, I've had several, but I can think of one. When I, I graduated from college and I, I, to me, I did everything I was supposed to do. I had gradual honors, you know, two concentrations, a minor. And I, I was applying for jobs starting junior year and between my junior year and senior year, I had over 85 plus job rejections before I stopped counting. And when you're not a citizen, you have to find a place to work for at least a year. So they can sponsor you. I mean, you have to work, you know, you have at least a year until you find someone that can sponsor you rather. And I was just panicking just because I was like, I mean, I, it's not, it's not my bad grades. Right. I mean, I have good grades. I have, I did everything.

Tayo (18:22):

I was the, the, the vice president of marketing this, I, I ran two nonprofits. I was in all the honor societies and it just kept, you know, you're too young, you're too green. We don't sponsor visas. You're not from the country. You're I didn't realize you spoke English too. Well when I read your first name, you know, any range of, of, of thins. And I just kept thinking, I can't, you know, I, I don't know. And so I had to go and I, I remember I had to convince my, my, someone I had interned with before and I said, Hey, look, is there any job <laugh> that we can do? This is when Twitter was just popping us. Like, you know, I have like a decent following Twitter. I have a marketing degree as well. Maybe we could, you know, do the social media thing.

Tayo (19:07):

And I had to convince him. And then he, he eventually allowed me to come on. And then you know, I got signed on for more than 90%, less than I thought I was gonna make. And it was, and then they brought me on and then they switched my job to sales, say, you're gonna do sales. And I never done sales before. And it, that was just the Fest, the, the first rather failure that, that I had, because it wasn't anything I even imagined my life to be. But it was a setup for what was to come a couple years after, which was my car accident.

Erin (19:42):

Tell us about that. OK. Hello? OK. What

Tayo (19:46):

That is. That's a cliff.

Erin (19:47):

That's a cliff and I play,

Tayo (19:53):

Yeah. Tell the audience a little secret. You asked me one and I was like, let, just say one that led up to another and then <laugh>, I'll set it up. Cause I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna make it sound like I would be talking for 10 minutes. So I was like, you know, lemme just like

Erin (20:07):

<Laugh>, you know what? Yeah, I need, I needed to insert right there. This is podcasting. What? Tell us more there's me. No, I could keep, listen. I'm like enthralled right now. Keep going, keep going.

Tayo (20:17):

Okay. So in 2000 and 2012, we're about to be 10 years from that. I was you know, I was about a, a year out of this job. I was, I hated the job, but I was also in a place where I was like, don't complain. Why are you looking to give, give rock? You get to stay in the country. What are you talking about? Other people don't get as lucky. And then I just knew I could be doing more. And then I was driving at the time and I Burgy Toyota Camry. And I got to this part where the road merges into the highway, I'm cruising down my lane. And all of a sudden my car gets cut to half because you know, this neighboring car lost control. And so I'm swerving out of the way. So I don't get hit. I smash into the left guard, one car, two cars, right guard, back to left guard, boom, hit it with such impact.

Tayo (21:02):

The car is perpendicular to the bridge. I'm certain I'm about to, yeah. I'm like about to fall over. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm 22. I'm screeching. I'm thinking, this is my life. I thought I was like Nelson Mandela. I was gonna like do all these things and I hadn't done anything else that I was gonna do. And you know, the cliche things, life flashes. You're wondering, what have you done? I couldn't really say anything. And simultaneously, cause everything has happened so quickly. I adrenaline kicking in, I slammed the brakes I was kicking in. I was just trying to kick out of the, the door. My car was totaled. I saw my edge to escape and I was in the middle of the highway cars, two other cars there. And there was debris everywhere. My car was totaled and nothing happened to me and I'm thinking, wait, what?

Tayo (21:46):

I'm looking at my toed car. I'm looking at the debris. I'm looking at the other people. And I'm looking at the, the guys, the guy's car who had caused the accident and I'm in so much shock and I'm looking at him and as my eyes, eyes coming to focus, I recognize him. I'm like, we went to school. What were you doing? How dare. And, and then I calmed him. You went to school with him. Yeah. Cause it was, you know, in, in Virginia and it wasn't his fault or anything, but it, it was. But then I, I calmed him. He was so apologetic, but I always took that moment because I remember that idea of what would've happened at 22, if I just died and not done anything. Yeah. And for me gave me that courage, that bravery, my, my name tire shorting tire, which means the brave one or a warrior has brought us joy.

Tayo (22:33):

And I said, I have to live up to my name. And so I, I started plotting and quit my job. And so if you're not a citizen, you either have to get married, get another job or go back to school. And for me, I knew New York city was where I wanted to go. So I started applying. I started starting for the GMAT. I didn't do well on the GMAT because I didn't study the way yeah. Awful test. But I also didn't have enough time. I just decided I was gonna to. And so I just in somehow like a couple of months, I said, I'll read some books and do the GMA and <laugh>, I didn't do the, the time. And then I got a low score, but I felt like I had high GPA and enough. And so I conditionally got accepted. So I, I, all the schools, I applied to rejected me for them, which I ended up going to conditionally accepted me.

Tayo (23:17):

And then they said, we are only going to conditionally accept you because of your low GMA score. And you have to prove to us that you could do well in three, you know, business laws, statistics, you know, and, and you know, there was another course skips my mind now. And I just remember, you know what, I'm moving. I don't know. So I didn't know anyone. I just packed all my stuff and, and quit the job and moved to New York city, came down in visa status. I had a work visa and I came down to student visa status and then, you know, it was there. And, and then, you know, the New York, then you, you know, you, if you don't have any, you could be broke for so long. But then, you know, I was like, I'm gonna figure it out. But there were several of those ones in New York, I ended up getting fired twice.

Tayo (23:56):

Mm. Right. I ended up, I ended up being broke multiple times. Then I ended up having to go to the school to convince them, to let me work for them to pay off my last semester because I wasn't sure I was gonna graduate. And then I, when I started my podcast in school, they all said, what are you doing? You are studying for a communication degree and a marketing degree. You should probably go to recruiting trips. But I was just, you know, like, no, I, I wanna do this podcast. And then, cause I feel like it's a great launch event. They laughed at me and I, you know, and they were right. Right. You know, I, I remember trying to get gummies one time. My card got declined. I meant several failures, Aaron <laugh>. But yeah, that's what happened.

Erin (24:34):

But look at you now. OK. This is first of all, I can't believe that you were okay. There was some serious angels just like holding onto your car in that moment. That is insane. And also meant to be because you're supposed to be here where you are. And also, you know, for them like whatever, I don't wanna say what I wanna say. I can't

Tayo (24:54):

<Laugh>

Erin (24:55):

You know, look, look now. And that's, that is just such a good segue because now you're the CEO of U I D management, which is a consulting firm that focuses on helping companies create inclusive environments, diversify their pipeline and expand globally into new markets. So you, you got out of you got, you said Fordham and you started this show. Your awesome show. That was a too. That was a too improve it. Pees. I did it like my three year old there <laugh> I've never done that on this show before, but it's, you know, you've started this company. What led you to that? How did you, and you got through all these setbacks, but what led you to start this, this company?

Tayo (25:37):

Well, yeah, so to be fair to for they, they, they at least conditioned accepted me and I was able to graduate with them. OK.

Erin (25:43):

We're we're grateful, but you know what? Like don't doubt him. You know what I mean? Don't

Tayo (25:47):

Doubt him. Don't don't but you know's so interesting though, because it was after my first year I'm avid podcast listener, I've always been, I was early. I'm always like, you know, I was early into social media. I was early this. And so I started getting the idea in my head that I wanted to launch mountain podcast. And it was right around the time I found that term that you mentioned earlier, TCK third culture kids, because I was reading a Buzzfeed article, it says 20 something signs. You're a TCK. And it was really connecting to all my lived experiences. You think in multiple time zones, you're wondering where your parents are. You're like, someone's asking where you're from. You're like, what do you really wanna know the answer? <Laugh> yeah. How much time do you have? And so I just thought, whoa, this word third called your kids.

Tayo (26:28):

I feel like this is, yeah, I could speak to this. And so I joined every Facebook group TK. I used hashtag TCK on Twitter. I joined every single one of these things. And then right around time, I was getting an idea to launch a podcast. I was thinking about what I could speak to. And I said, well, this is just something I have a lived experience on. So everyone I found on Twitter, I just reached out to them. I slid into their DMS and I said, Hey, I'm think gonna start our podcast. I wanna talk about TC Ks. I see your TC. K, would you be interested? And I got more. I, you know, I went from 80 plus job rejections to 80 plus. Yes. Yeah. No one ever talks about this and this is all that. And so I was doing that in between school.

Tayo (27:07):

All right. And it was multiple time zones where I could talk to someone from, you know you know, Philippines one day, someone in west coast on the east coast. And I just started to find my voice. Right. You know, it wasn't really, I didn't know what it was gonna be. I just, I enjoyed doing it. And then gradually people started to find it and, and then they was like, oh, this is really good. This is really good. And then there was one person from the world bank who had heard an episode of mine or someone sent an episode and says, Hey, I don't know if you've ever thought about speaking. And I was like, yeah, I have <laugh> right. Yeah. But we, we think you could come down to DC if you could come. Yeah. I was in New York cause like could come down to DC to speak to some kids who also grew up like you.

Tayo (27:48):

So, you know, diplomat. And I was like, you know, I saw it for myself, but I didn't see it that soon. And then yeah, we don't have any money or anything, but you know, if you can come back would be good. And at the time my parents were living in DC, so I thought, oh cool. I could just crash with them. And so I did that and I didn't really know what to pack, but I felt like I trust myself. And that was the beginning of me trusting myself. And so I then started to see a speaking engagement path. And then, and then it was a long Rocky roll because it was hard to prove my experience, like who was this kid was this guy. But the episodes say in world led me to leverage that into more opportunities later on. So yeah,

Erin (28:24):

That is awesome. And then that's what, that's essentially how you started U I D management. This is how you got into speaking. This is how long have you had your podcast? By the way, I should know this, but how long?

Tayo (28:39):

August, 2014. So we get

Erin (28:41):

To that's a long time time. Okay. First of all. Yeah. That's like before that's, that's adopt, you're an early adopter. You got like the first iPhone. Like you are, you are an adopter. Okay. That is, that's a long that I started my business in 2014. That is, that's a long time

Tayo (29:03):

We started, I started business, but yeah, it, I didn't know what I was doing. Honestly. I loved it.

Erin (29:11):

Who, who does I still, I, I never know. I just, I told, I told my team that one day, I'm like, we know we use improv here to teach people and we also, we're just making all of this up as we go. You know what I mean? So that's, that's really it. And I love, let me ask you this. What cause I liked when you said I wrote a contract to myself, which is so cool. I believe in that I really believe in writing contracts to ourselves and writing contracts to the universe. And I mean, we got a little spiritual in your show as well, but I wanna ask you this question. Like what, like if you were to write yourself a, a letter to your former self before you did that speaking engagement in DC, what advice would you tell younger? Tayo

Tayo (29:56):

I would tell him that he's enough and he doesn't have to compare himself to, to other people's accolades. I, I got stuck in that for a little bit. Yeah, because you know, yeah. You know, when you're, when you're getting your MBA, you know, and I have my MBA, you you're people that are, you know, they're getting, they're gonna be recruited to all these great firms in you are one of those candidates and they're looking for all these things in your resume. And in my head, I was like, I just started a podcast. What do I have to say? I just like, I'm a year outta this. You know? And when that lady reached out and said, you know, you could speak to people that grew up, like you, it just really clicked in my head. I was like, I have life experience.

Erin (30:32):

Yes.

Tayo (30:33):

There's something I learned from it. It might not be something other people understand, but I can give that to someone. And so it really got into my packaging mind and I'm a marketer and a brand strategy. So I started really thinking about it, which is it ultimately led me to understand you've been a guy in between multiple cultures, all your life. You've studied that. Whether you did it intentionally or unintentionally, what the companies need today, you need to understand how to connect effective because cultures, what is that? Diversity equity inclusion.

Erin (31:00):

Yes. I love this so much. Okay. Wait really quick. I just wanna cap this for the improvement peeps, because I think so many people, first of all, you are a brilliant marketer, cuz your story is so like I went to your website to research you and I was like, this is it. I mean, it's just like your tagline. Is there, your story is there. I know all the things and it's perfect. It's not confusing. It's so streamlined. But essentially it's your story, right? Like every person has a story. I think leaders get caught up in, well I wanna do more speaking in my organization or I wanna speak at my association. I'm a part of, but I don't have anything to say. And I think you and I both are sitting here today because we're like, you know what? We have something to say, every human being has something to say and it's just owning that confidence and leaning into that confidence muscle.

Erin (31:53):

So I wanna encourage people listening to do that. Take Tao's bites, go and tell your younger self shut, shut up those negative voices. Because I think that we all have a beautiful, like your story is so beautiful. It needs to be told you need to continue telling it. And everyone listening has a story. So knowing that our audiences are, you know, you know who, our audiences, these amazing group of people, leaders who work in these cross-cultural environments, what are, if you could list three best practices for our audience to go back and help them communicate and connect cross culturally within their organizations, what are three, if you could give us three tips or three best practices that you teach on or know to be true.

Tayo (32:40):

So I'm glad, I'm so glad you said three. Cause it's something I call seeing beyond the foggy system and I break down an acronym. So, so if you think about the CS security mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. Think about security, success and belonging. So every company needs to know what each employee needs to be successful. What, and that takes you knowing them what they need to feel like they belong and what makes them feel safe. Right. And you're gonna find out what makes them feel safe is, is multiple, you know, multiple things across different lenses, right? And if you really do your job managing, leading and coaching, that idea of understanding those nuances with what success looks like for someone person, what security is like for another person and what belonging is like is gonna encourage you to really create a safe space. And then you have to educate yourself on that's the E the second to first E educate yourself on the optimized environment to ensure that success exists that security exists and belonging exists.

Tayo (33:38):

And then the second E is really exploring your own biases and triggers. Each one of us has biases. It's not sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but what are those moments where your biases flare up? What are those moments where you're triggered? They're gonna be internal external. And if you really understand your triggers, you're gonna be able to understand how to understand and change behavior. And so it, I always say the secret to change behavior is understanding your triggers. And so if you understand your triggers and you explore your biases, you are able to actually grow. And so, yeah it's for recap, See is success, security belonging first S E the first E is educate yourself on the optimized environments for security, success and belonging. And the second E is exploring your biases and triggers.

Erin (34:24):

Oh my God, I love this. And I love that you had a, I had, I love it. I, I didn't even know that you had that. And I was like, you have three things and you had an acronym, all the things I love it. And C is so easy. I love that.

Tayo (34:35):

Yeah. See, beyond the foggy systems, <laugh>

Erin (34:37):

See beyond the foggy systems. I love that. Okay. Just joting down notes here, cuz that's how I, that's how I recap this for you and prove it peeps. Okay. I gotta take notes because I'm, this is fantastic. And I think a lot of people listening today feel like they have a lot of challenges in their organization when it comes to communicating cross. Functionally, what would you say? Some of the biggest challenges are that you see within organizations when it's come cross, functionally cross culturally, what are some of those biggest challenges?

Tayo (35:08):

Well, it's, it really comes down to the standards and norms. Right? I don't feel like we humanize a lot of people right in today's world. Yeah. When we think about standards and norms, sometimes they favor a certain group of people. So you and I might be able bodied. I can say, I can lemme see for myself, I am able bodied. Right? And so we're not necessarily, a lot of companies might not necessarily think about how to create opportunities for people that are not able bodied. And, and you know, it's in the language, it's in the policies, it's in the park yet it's in the health policy. But if you do that without doing what I said earlier, you're gonna create an environment from your own vantage point. So you don't invite and create a system of inquiry. Then, then you think about the invisible and mental health issues from many people I have I've been blessed to have a lot of friends who are able to educate me on, on, on several ways.

Tayo (35:57):

Chemical depression is different from situational depression, for example. But that's so hard to communicate. Yeah, because then it, it becomes, it's an it's affecting your performance. And then you factor in different cultures and different backgrounds and what, what it's like for someone to express oneself in a different culture and how that might be not professional <laugh> to you because of Mason, the standard. And you're like, wait, is that really professional? You know, I've been in places where people have told me, cut your hair, right. Or your hair is do this and all that. And so it's, it's a multiple layer of those things. And really it's really a reflecting on those standards and norms. Who do they fit? Do they include everyone? Is there an invitation for someone to challenge that and without fear of consequence or something happening to them because they challenge it and they're telling you how your policy is affecting them.

Erin (36:42):

Oh, I love this so much. The through line of what I teach is so is right on this. It's like, make sure you create a culture of a place where people feel like they see, they feel seen, they feel heard, they feel valued. They feel like they belong. Yes. And it's just blows my mind sometimes that, and again, I run a small business. So I have a very small team. When you have a large organization, there are so many different types of people. And if these policies don't make sure that every single person feels included, they don't feel like they feel seen. Then they're not gonna wanna show up every single day. They're not gonna wanna do the work. They're not gonna be productive. And then ultimately it's gonna be, it's gonna be a downfall for every human being who's involved. So hundred

Tayo (37:30):

Percent.

Erin (37:31):

I love that. OK. You're just throwing, throwing some knowledge here, throwing some knowledge <laugh> so let me ask you this because I wanna plug that book. What is one thing that you would tell a leader to start doing when it comes to communicating cross culturally? And what's one thing you would tell a leader to stop doing. And if you want to know more after he answers this, get the book, use your difference to make a difference. Okay. Just a soft plug, soft plug.

Tayo (38:02):

It's a hard plug if you watch it on video. Yeah.

Erin (38:05):

Plug clock. OK.

Tayo (38:07):

<Laugh> you know you by now, you know, I always teaching frameworks. I have frameworks. So the book is broken down three parts. There's that word again? Three, my favorite number fun. There you go. The book is broken down into three parts. Educate don't perpetuate instead. Communicate. And yeah. Poetry is, is one of my, my favorite things to indulge in. So in the educate, it's really, I, I talk about how you need to educate yourself on your BA your biases, which you talked about triggers and your values, or I didn't bring up values earlier. So biases triggers, values. The reason I, I, I add that as to start is you need to understand who you are, so you understand how you show up, right? And so the book goes through several ways to do that and then educating yourself when your environment. And, and I go through lessons.

Tayo (38:49):

I learned from my father, my pops is a diploma because every time you're diploma, you get posted to different parts of the world. And you have to understand that culture and your culture, and then know how that can favor both of you, the countries and policies. And so it's really about expanding the lens beyond yourself to understand what makes several people feel the emotions, you know, what makes you feel happy could be, be different from me, right? What makes me feel angry? What makes me feel any sort of thing, and then really understanding how to expand your knowledge, to understand who makes the decisions in your, in, in your society, in your community beyond just the two years or four years that election cycles present. And then the don't perpetuate is really about everything. You've learned to make sure that when you are now in systems, healthcare, workplace, family, schools, friends, you are not perpetuating systems.

Tayo (39:39):

You might hear something based on what you educated, but it's not helpful, but based on a privilege and advice you have, someone's not gonna say anything. How do you make sure you're not part of the problem? And then it's really used in everything you learned. And then the, instead communicate's about opening dialogue. We don't live in a world where everyone agrees. In fact, most people don't agree, but how do you open dialogue, right? How do you create an opportunity where you can open dialogue and still be able to see each other and not dehumanize each other? Because I think conflict is healthy, but they, they can also be unhealthy conflict. And so it's, it's me walking through that balance. So that's what it looks about.

Erin (40:17):

I love it. And I love that you think in threes and I love all of the things that you just gave us, these juicy chicken nuggets that I wanna put in and eat. I truly just think the world of you. I think you're so fantastic. And I think that the work that you're doing is so needed so necessary. We always ask this question. This is like one of your last ones. Okay. Not to get sad, but I am we say here it's improve podcast. And you're, it is that thing that you're put on this earth to do. It's that it factor. What is the one thing that you bring to this world? Or you're it?

Tayo (40:57):

Oh my gosh. I think my my, it is to challenge people to really fight against systems of oppression and suppression, I think. And I'll say, I'll tell you what, I think we've accepted so many things so far in the world. You know, the older I've gotten, the more I question certain things. And I, I remember beauty standards being different from the way they are now. And I'm always thinking, how did we just blatantly accept this? I remember education systems to telling textbooks that had no one looking like me coming up until enslavement and colonization. And I'm like, how did we just accept this? Right. And so for me, I think it's me just really, the one thing I've been putting here is to really get people, to be more curious and to be okay with challenging, because growing up it wasn't okay to challenge. In fact, I grew up initially under dictatorships, you could challenge <laugh>. And so my, my existence is, is in direct opposition to that. And, and yeah, so challenge the status quo. There you go.

Erin (41:59):

That's it. And use your difference to make a difference. I difference. Love it. Oh, oh yeah. Yep. Yep. That's it. And I, I wanna end with a little fun because, you know, we talked about failure a little bit. It's a big part of the improv world, which is, there are no mistakes, only gifts. This is called the failure lining round is just kind of fun. And I'm gonna ask you a series of questions. And if you answer, I want you to answer with one word. And if you answer with more than one word, I'm gonna give you a fail. Yeah. And like a weird creepy voice, just like that. But it's just for fun, just for fun. And then we're gonna end this the right way because hopefully our intention was met, which I think it was, I think it was, yes. So let's, let's this with some fun. So are you ready for the lightning round? Yes. Here we go. What's one word to describe your early career,

Tayo (42:53):

Challenging

Erin (42:55):

To describe where you now and your career

Tayo (42:58):

Excited

Erin (43:00):

To describe your podcast hosting style.

Tayo (43:06):

<Laugh> I'm I'm I'm inspired. Yes, yes. Fail.

Erin (43:12):

Yeah. OK. Just had to get one in one in. OK.

Tayo (43:14):

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That was too

Erin (43:15):

That's OK. That's OK. One word to describe your shoe fashion style. AKA my tail Nikes. Exquisite.

Tayo (43:22):

Yes. You that.

Erin (43:25):

And one word to describe this interview

Tayo (43:28):

Wide ranging that's two words, ah,

Erin (43:34):

Love tell ours where they can find you if they wanna connect and we'll make sure to link all the things, where can they find you if they want more tie in their life,

Tayo (43:43):

Digital home, Isty rockin.com. So you can find me there with, you know, my, my book, my podcast, and everything. I'm on every social media platform. I'm mainly on TikTok and LinkedIn now. So Ty rockin just type Tyro. And you see me there. My podcast is as told by nomads and my book is use your difference to make a difference.

Erin (44:04):

I love it so much. And I will say you have really made a difference on our show today. So thanks for being an inspiration for bringing that nuance to the world for bringing that it, the world needs more you and they need more te sneakers. So, amen. Thank you.

Tayo (44:20):

<Laugh> my pleasure.

Erin (44:21):

Thank you so much. All right, bye

Tayo (44:25):

Bye.

Erin (44:34):

Okay. Tayo rockson did that. There it is. So let's just get to the bottom of this. I love this acronym. C make sure you see behind the fogginess of your organization when it comes to communicating cross culturally C again, stands for security and belonging. That S that first E stands for educate yourself on the environment. And the third E stands for explore and understand your own triggers. So I want to just first and foremost say, I love this acronym because we wanna create a space where people feel seen, heard, valued. That's what we are here to do. That's what improve it is all about. And that's what TA is all about. So I really want you to take this acronym and break it down, ask yourself, does your organization have a sense of security and belonging? Educate yourself on what is going on in your environment, educate yourself on the different types of cultures that exist within your organization or the different types of things that we might not see or talk about on a daily basis.

Erin (45:51):

So it could be mental disabilities. It could be different types of cultures, but make sure to ask yourself, are these standards and are the norms fitting, everyone, educate yourself. And then question, do the standards and norms fit everyone here, and then explore your own triggers. Understand them, what things, what are your biases that you have? Because we all have bias. That is a fact of life. So I want you to really break down this acronym, see, ask yourself these questions, take these questions to your leadership, and please pass this episode on. If it spoke to you today, if it is something that could be beneficial in your organization or to another leader, you know, leading cross cultural teams, I just wanna tell you, improve it peeps. You are crushing it. And I'm so grateful for this time. We get to spend together every week.

Erin (46:46):

Please consider leaving us a review on iTunes if you haven't done. So, because I wanna bring more guests like Tayo on this show. And that's how he knows that you listen. And that's how he knows that we have this awesome community of people, leaders who wanna do wonderful things in the world. So here's my ask. Leave us a five star iTunes review. And then, you know what I'm gonna say? Keep failing, keep improving because the world needs that special. It that only you can bring, I'll see you next week. Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy you were along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star review and subscribe to this show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if you're really feeling today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keeping it real deal on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I wanna leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.

 

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