Episode 142: Self Healing Series: How to Overcome People Pleasing & Set Boundaries with Heather Whelpley
Happy #๐ก๐ฒ๐๐๐ฝ๐ถ๐๐ผ๐ฑ๐ฒ๐ช๐ฒ๐ฑ๐ป๐ฒ๐๐ฑ๐ฎ๐, improve it! peeps! We canโt wait to share this one with you, featuring special guest Heather Whelpley.
As a keynote speaker, award-winning author, and host of the podcast Create Your Own Rules For Life, Heather speaks on imposter syndrome, authentic voice, and creating your own rules for success.
This episode is absolutely jam-packed with goodies. And not to give any spoilers but as a light appetizer we have some ideas Erin and Heather discuss to get you just as pumped as us to ๐น๐ถ๐๐๐ฒ๐ป:
๐กJoy and shame cannot exist at the same time
๐กWhat it actually looks like to work with instead of against our bodies
๐กFinding, getting to know, and listening to the quieter, inner truth- instead of the louder, more obvious inner critic
๐กFinding our inner child as an adult and how to have FUN
๐กPeople pleasing and the hard conversations that help us to let go of it
๐กWhat happens to the pain in our bodies when we tell the truth
๐กBreaking the rules to unlock inner freedom, joy, and fulfillment and in turn to unlock this in the outside world, too
ICYMI โ Your Post-Episode Homework: Make your own version of your bliss list. Start with this question - who brings you joy? Write down all of those people. Then write down what activities bring you joy. Then surround yourself with those people and put yourself in situations where you can be more joyful.
Make sure to share todayโs episode with a friend who you think could benefit, and get ready for an a life changing episode! ๐๐ง
About Heather Whelpley:
Heather Whelpley is a speaker and award-winning author that works with women to let go of proving, pleasing, and perfecting and create their own rules for life. An overachiever since birth, Heather has learned โ most of the time! - to let go of the inner critic telling her that she always needs to do more โ and reconnect to her true inner voice that knows she is worthy for who she is, not what she does. Seeing her own challenges in so many women led her to speak on imposter syndrome, discovering your authentic voice, and creating your own rules for success with thousands of people at companies and conferences around the globe, as well as publish her book, An Overachieverโs Guide To Breaking The Rules: How To Let Go Of Perfect and Live Your Truth. She also recently launched the podcast Create Your Own Rules For Life. Prior to starting her business, Heather worked in a wide variety of human resources and leadership development roles at Cargill and Ameriprise for ten years. Heather lives in Colorado where she spends as much time hiking and exploring as possible.
Show Links:
Website: https://www.heatherwhelpley.com/
Get Heatherโs Book: An Overachieverโs Guide to Breaking the Rules by Heather Whelpley
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Connect with Erin Diehl:
Email Erin: info@learntoimproveit.com
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief โYes, Andโ officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. Sheโs a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, โget comfortable with the uncomfortable.โ Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We canโt wait to connect with you online!
โI love this podcast and I love Erin!!โ
If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing this podcast! This helps Erin support more people โ just like you โ move toward the leader you want to be. Click here, click listen on Apple Podcasts, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with 5 stars, and select โWrite a Review.โ Then be sure to let Erin know what you loved most about the episode! Also, if you havenโt done so already, subscribe to the podcast. That way you wonโt miss any juicy episodes! Thanks in advance, improve it! Peeps :)
Episode 142 Transcription
Erin (00:04):
Improve it! Peeps. Oh my gosh. Welcome back to the Self-Healing Series. And today I have an amazing guest for you, Heather. Well, plea is here a friend of mine, a colleague of another keynote speaker in the world, and we're talking all about how to overcome people pleasing and set boundaries. This show Heather's book, you'll hear me reference this several times in our interview, but it literally felt like she wrote this book for me. I said, thank you Heather, because I saw myself in every page of this book. So Heather's a speaker. She's an award-winning author that works with women to let go of proving people pleasing and perfecting and create their own rules for life. Now, as an overachiever since birth, Heather has learned most of the time to let go of the inner critic telling her that she always needs to do more and reconnect to her true inner voice that knows she is worthy for who she is, not what she does.
Erin (01:08):
I'm gonna say that again for who she is, not what she does. Seeing her own challenges in so many women led her to speak on imposter syndrome, discovering your authentic voice and creating your own rules for success with thousands of people at companies and conferences around the globe, as well as publish her book that we referenced throughout this show, an Overachievers Guide to Breaking the Rules, how to Let Go of Perfect and Live Your Truth. She also recently launched the podcast, create Your Own Rules for Life. Now, prior to starting her business, Heather worked for in a wide variety of human resources and leadership development roles at Cargill and Ameriprise for 10 years. And Heather lives currently in Colorado where she spends as much time hiking and exploring as possible.
Erin (02:00):
This show is truly a breath of fresh air. I want you to get out a pin and pencil cuz we give you some very specific tangibles as we go through the show. Without further ado, let's improve it with Heather Ley. Are you a leader searching for new and innovative ways to drive employee engagement and team morale through the roof? Do you wanna create a company culture where everyone feels seen, heard and valued? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business Improv Edutainer, failfluencer and Professional Zoombie who is ready to help you improve your it, your it being the thing that makes you, you think of me as your keeping it real. Professional development bestie who is here to help you learn from your failures, stand tall in your power and improve yourself so you can improve the lives of others. Oh, and did I mention that we are improving your IT through play? That's right. I am an improvisational comedy expert who uses experiential learning to help you have your aha ha haha moments. Those are the moments when the light bulb goes off and you're laughing at the same time. So grab your chicken hat, your notebook, and your inner child because I'm gonna take you on a journey that is both fun and transformative. Welcome to the Improve It Podcast.
Erin (03:38):
Hey there, I'm gonna sing you into the show. It's always so awkward when like we're having a conversation before and then I hit record and now I'm, I'm we're recording. We know we're recording, but now we were just having the best conversation ever. So I just wanna continue that as we keep into the show. Welcome to the Improve It podcast Heather.
Heather (03:59):
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here chatting with you today Erin.
Erin (04:02):
I'm so excited to be chatting with you. Heather sent her book to myself and we'll get into that in just a minute because it's truly one of the most magical reads that came at the most divine time for me. So I'm excited to share that with our improvement peeps. But if you could say an intention for today's show, so one word that you want to give our audience today, what would it be?
Heather (04:31):
I love that connection. I think that's pretty much my intention with everything I do is is connection both with myself and with everyone that I'm interacting with on that deeper human level
Erin (04:43):
Connection. Yes, and that's, I mean, truly, I see that and you and I met through our amazing coach Jane, who was also on this show. And I know that you're a fantastic speaker. I, I now know you're a fantastic author. I'm so glad you sent me an autographed copy and
Heather (05:04):
<Laugh>,
Erin (05:05):
But truly, I, you know, when books just fall off the shelf or they show up in your mailbox at the right time, that was Yes.
Erin (05:12):
This book for me and we're in the month of January. You sent it to me in December, I read it over the holidays and I needed that book at that time. And I know what we call our audience, the Improve It Peeps will need this message that you are sending out to the world. This is our self-healing series. I know through reading the book that you've done your own self-healing. So if you can in the highest level, cuz we had a chapter or two in the book about it. Tell us your burnout story if you, if you can, how did, how did we get to this, this version of Heather?
Heather (05:53):
Yeah, I think my burnout story was about 25 years long. <Laugh> Yeah, <laugh>. It really, it really started honestly when I was young, when I was 14, 15 years old and for the first time I really started putting a huge amount of pressure on myself to stay and maintain as being the number one person in my class. So being the valedictorian of my high school class. And it just was, it started there and then it just continued throughout my entire life essentially from from school into my corporate career even. You know, I didn't follow necessarily a traditional kinda overachiever check the box type of path. You know, when I graduated from college I led outdoor trips with teenagers. I was a gap year leader, program program leader in Central and South America. But even in those situations I overdid everything, including fun. I might add like I always loved to have fun so I was just, I just overdid everything.
Heather (06:50):
And in my corporate career I had no boundaries. I didn't know how to say no, I didn't wanna disappoint anyone including myself. I liked being that person who gets everything done and does everything well. And then when I entered my business, started myself as a, a business owner entrepreneur, it took it up to an even higher level cuz suddenly it felt like everything was on me and just me. And to a degree that was true. I was a solopreneur on my own, but I took it to a level that was, you know, un very unhealthy I would say. And to the point where, you know, I was waking up thinking about like the Facebook ads that I was running for my coaching programs, which was what I was focusing on at the time. And I was feeling like I had to match my corporate salary in a year, which did not happen.
Heather (07:36):
Let me put that out there <laugh>. And I just wasn't experiencing any freedom. And I thought, you know, there was a lot of reasons I started my business, most of which had to do with the actual work that I was doing that I wanted to put out in the world. But part of it was because I wanted more freedom and I realized I wasn't getting it. So I finally for the first time ever stopped and asked myself, why am I doing all this? Like, what is the root behind all of this overdoing this product, this over productivity overachievement. Cause I don't think there's anything wrong with doing or productivity or achievement, it's the over part of that that I was taking to this unhealthy level. And that really that led to this whole exploration of where does this come from? And for me it's different for everyone.
Heather (08:25):
But for me the root of this was I was trying to prove myself. I was trying to prove my worth through overdoing, through some people, pleasing through wanting to get everything done and, and feeling like that was connected to really my worth as a human. And for me this was, you know, part of its cultural rules that get handed down to us. Part of it was internalized to me, although I think even internalized rules always come from somewhere. And then for me there was this additional layer that doesn't apply to everyone where I was also not a mother, I was single, you know, not married. Like some of these things that we tend to define womanhood as. And I was in my late thirties and I wasn't any of those things. So I thought, well gosh, I better, like, I better do well in my work and in my business cuz if I'm not, if I'm not where I want to be, if I'm quote unquote failing according to the definition of what a woman is supposed to be in my personal life, then I better like overdue in all the other parts of my life to make up for that.
Heather (09:26):
And so that really was the root of all of this. And it, it was a, as you would imagine, a pretty big deep dive journey and one that continues today. I mean I published this book three years ago, which meant I was writing it four to five years ago at this point. But the journey still continues today. And I would say it is both deepened and broadened. And looking at, you know, not just achieving and people pleasing, but like all those rules that were handed and where they come from.
Erin (09:53):
I freaking love it. I, the book was, I was like, is this my life? Is she, is she document? Is this the Truman true? Because I was literally relating to so many things that you say and I, I loved in the book too. I mean right now I got a cold, listen to this. Okay. And I am, you were talking about sinus infections, you were talking about running yourself down with shingles. You had shingles at 30 because you overworked yourself the physical conditions that you brought upon yourself based on the stress of overachieving and overdoing, which so many of us can relate to. And I have to say, listen, listening to your story, reading it, I mean it is truly my nature. I'm a type A Enneagram three, I sometimes write down things on a list just so then I've already done just so I can cross them off. Okay, <laugh>. And I love that the first part of your book is focused on how do you get here? So for our listener, our improve that people listening today who identifies as an overachiever or a people pleaser or a recovering perfectionist, what it would you say is maybe a step or the first step to help them understand how they got there?
Heather (11:16):
Absolutely. So I think the first step is, so first of all, I wanna just explain a little bit like I call these things that were handed rules. So these rules that we are handed, which are messages, beliefs, ways that we are taught directly and indirectly of how we are supposed to be, what's valuable, how we're supposed to show up. And we all get these, like everyone gets them in different ways. They come from our families, they come from LinkedIn, they come from the teams. We've been a part of the people in our lives. I mean just everything around us all the time sends us these messages. And oftentimes, particularly the ones from earlier in our life are so ingrained we don't even know that they're there. So taking that step back to really think about, okay, where does this come from? What is the root of my people pleasing, my perfectionism, my overdoing with just total compassion?
Heather (12:06):
Because it's not your fault, it is not your fault that we were sent these rules that you have indoctrinated these rules inside of you. And so total compassion with that journey of recognizing what they, what they feel like. And sometimes it's not like, oh I have to achieve that might be part of it, but it's like, oh, I should always be doing more or I can't disappoint anyone. Or if something has to be perfect before I can share it with anyone or you know, all of these different feelings that we tend to have, they come from somewhere and you don't create them yourself. They are there because of everyone around you, all your experiences. The messages that we get. And I would say particularly if you're sitting in the United States as well as many other cultures around the world as well, we have a very high achievement oriented culture that can make you feel like you should always be doing more and achieving to the next level and really does connect your worth into achievement and productivity.
Heather (12:59):
So it makes sense that when you're getting these messages directly and indirectly all the time that you would internalize them. So I think that first step is just simply recognizing what rules you're following now. And the book does take you through all of this as well to recognize, you know, what are the rules that you're following now with total compassion? And then start to ask yourself, do I wanna keep following those rules? Do I want to keep following those rules or do I wanna create a new set of rules for my life? So for me, that new rule that really stuck with me was I'm worthy for who I am, not what I do. And when I follow that rule and it didn't feel, it didn't feel a hundred percent believable and right even though logically I knew that was true, right? Like logically, I think most of us say yeah I know that I'm worthy for just the person I am, but we don't always in our bellies <laugh> really believe that and follow that.
Heather (13:53):
So for me it was, you know, this was a multi-month journey. I mean it's longer than that, but really this like instituting this new rule of I'm worthy for who I am, not what I do. It took several months of really focusing on that and choosing to act on that and let go of those old rules that told me I should always be doing more. That I always had to be successful the very first time I tried something that I had to constantly prove myself. And so yeah, learning to both recognize, reconnect to who you are and create some new rules for yourself.
Erin (14:26):
Yes, I love that so much. And it takes some, it takes patience and silence and work and as you mentioned earlier, it's an ever going process. You've been doing this since you wrote the book, which you said was like five years ago and now you've written a new book, which you're excited to, to hear about. But one of the exercises in this book that I really loved is what am I proving by Overachieving? And I really, really liked that because that in itself was also super impactful for me personally. I the same thing. It's like, who cares? No one cares but me. No one cares. And ex I make these rigid rules for myself. And so I think just getting, first of all the book, everyone should get the book, but that exercise, writing down what I'm proving by overachieving was so impactful. So part two of this book talks about reconnecting to yourself. You talk a lot about naming, identifying your inner critic, somebody call that the ego. And then you talk about listening to your own inner guidance, which I'm so here for. And I loved that you, you'd say to name your inner critic and yours is named the valedictorian, which I just love so much. And I did this a long time ago in therapy. I named my anxiety, which is also your inner critic Gus. So you have the valedictorian, I have Gus. Why is na, why is identifying and naming your inner critic so important?
Heather (16:05):
Oh yeah. Well first of all, it's just sometimes it's nice to bring some humor to these things. <Laugh>, yes, it's good too. We don't have to take everything so seriously. So I think that's part of it is like giving your inner critic a a name that just brings a little bit of humor to it. But really the, the science behind it is that it helps you to separate yourself from that inner critic cuz it feels like that inner critic is you. Yeah. But it's not, it's just a voice in your head that is either exacerbating things or oftentimes downright lying. And yes, it is trying to protect you through that very dysfunctional way that it has of criticizing you in order to protect you. But it's not your truth. And that's why I really like to distinguish between the inner critic voice in our heads and that deeper truth, that true inner voice, inner guidance spirit, whatever you wanna call it, there's a million different names.
Heather (16:55):
So whatever resonates with you. And that deeper truth voice is, it is often quieter. Like the inner critic is loud and it's mean and it's ruminating and it just goes round and round and round into your head. But that deeper truth often sits for me at least like deeper in my belly, kind of, yeah. And medow belly and it has a voice too. And it's, but it's softer oftentimes. But it's strong, it's soft, but it's strong and it's confident and it's there. And so if we can start to separate both separate ourselves from the inner critic, give it a name note, let yourself know like in the moment like that's just my inner critic talking. I don't have to make decisions based on what that voice in my head is saying. And then to shift kind of simultaneously shift and say, what's my deeper truth saying here?
Heather (17:42):
What's the true inner voice saying? And I will also say, if you've never done that before, if you're out of touch with ourselves, which a lot of us are out of disconnected with ourselves, that inner, that true inner voice may not, you know, show up right away. And it also may not be an actual voice. I mean I would say frequently it's not actually speaking to you in words. Whereas the inner critic does tend to speak more in, in words like statements that you're hearing. But that deeper truth might just be feelings, it might be intuition, it might be actual words, but there's lots of different ways that it can show up. And so starting to shift from one to the other is really helpful. And that doesn't mean the inner critic's gonna 100% go away. I don't think that's the goal at all to, you know, for sure quiet that inner critic to get rid of imposter syndrome, to get rid of all of these things. They're gonna be there, but you can quiet them over time and you can purposely choose to listen to that other voice and create some different stories in your brain.
Erin (18:38):
Mm, I love that. And I love too, and I, this is true for me with the inner voice. I have to get quiet in order to hear it. Like I have to be in a meditation or I have to just be silent and not racing and doing what the overachiever does. And the recovering pact perfectionist, which was a fight or flight mode for me, I lived in that space for so long. Like I don't even wanna know if somebody were to give me a stress test what that result would be, it would be insane. But when you get quiet and you listen to that inner guide, your life starts to change. You start hearing different intuition, you start hearing a calling for yourself, that is of the highest good I think. Not to get too woo woo with it, but I really love that you separate them and I love that you named them. Give it hum the inner critics some humor. And I, and this leads into what I wanna ask you next. So you talk also a lot about getting out of your head and getting into your body. What are some specific questions that we can use to check in with ourselves when we feel are people pleasing, overachieving, self start to rise?
Heather (19:53):
I'm so glad you asked this question or I'm, I'm bringing up the body piece cuz for me this was, has been one of the biggest things over the last several years. And I would also say it is the thing that gets commented on the least. And I've always wondered, okay, did I just not, did I just not explain it very well in the book? Or are we for the most part so disconnected with our bodies that we don't even know how to start? Like it feels inaccessible <laugh>? Yeah, I don't know the an I don't know the answer to that question, but I've wondered it because I'm like, this was like, this has been huge for me. Getting reconnected into my body, getting outta my head into my body. And also like, let's be honest, releasing some of the shame that I had and occasionally still have in my body.
Heather (20:35):
I mean that has been life changing. And especially for people who identify as women, we have been handed a whole set of really bad rules, <laugh> mm-hmm <affirmative> around what our bodies are supposed to look like, what's desirable, what's beautiful, all the things. And so, you know that if we don't live up to those quote unquote rules, which most of us don't, that standard of perfection, most of us don't live up to that there can be, you know, additional disconnection from your body. And then if you're an overachiever mode, that perfectionist mode that always doing you, you, the brain can just go, go, go, go, go, go. And we can get really disconnected from our body. So I feel like for me in my history, they've absolutely, those two things have overlapped. And caused that. And so yeah, I think for a really long time I lived mostly up in my head even though like I was really active, I exercised, I used my body a lot.
Heather (21:27):
But actually even the way that I just said that I used my body <laugh>, it was probably a better way of saying it. Like I would push myself through workouts even when I was exhausted. Like I wasn't listening to my body. Yeah. I, it was like there and I was using it. So I think the sl what you said, first of all, slowing down, creating some space for yourself I think is huge to both listen to your voice and listen to your body. Cuz they're really interconnected anyway. Yeah. Our bodies are giving us signals all the time and oftentimes we don't hear them, we don't know what they are. So just slowing down long enough. And I think this can start in really small ways like listening if you feel really disconnected, listening for first just the physical signs and trying to follow them like, I'm tired, maybe I should get some sleep tonight or I'm hungry, let me fulfill that need for my hunger. You know, really starting small on some of those, those little things. And then the other thing I would say that's been really helpful for me is finding joy in my body.
Erin (22:29):
Yeah. Yes.
Heather (22:30):
So yes, like sl it's part of it slowing down, but also like, I love to dance and I'm not a good dancer. Like this is not a pretty thing at all, but putting on some music and dancing in my living room and just moving my body however, however I wanna move it. Like, and depending on how I'm feeling in the song and all of those things and it brings like, there can't be shame and joy at the same time. You know, so we, when we can find that joy in our bodies, I think that helps to reconnect as well. So slowing down, listening, asking really simple questions to start out with, but, and then finding joy and really just asking yourself the question like what does my body need right now? Or what's my body telling me right now? And then listening for the response and see what comes up.
Erin (23:17):
Ugh, you know what, it sounds so simple but we just don't do it enough. I, I, because of this whole self-healing journey, hence why we're here today have been doing that more. I've actually checked in with myself what does, so normally I would run from meeting to meeting like a crazy, like literally just throwing papers, not if not focused <laugh>. But now I slow down, I check in my myself, what do I need? Maybe I need to step outside and get some sunshine. And I love that it's so simple. Check in with yourself. What does insert your name need right now?
Erin (23:57):
Hey, improve it. Peep, I wanted to interrupt your learning really quick to thank you for turning into this show Now. Each week myself and the entire Improve It team are working tirelessly to give you the content you deserve to help you use play to become your best self personally and professionally. Now if you wanted to return the thank you, that's okay, you don't have to, but if you did, would you leave us a five star review on iTunes? It takes two minutes to leave five stars and maybe a comment or two on how this show has impacted you. Just scroll to the bottom of this show on iTunes and you'll see the opportunity to leave five stars. Now once you do that, please send a screenshot, take a screenshot from your phone and email it to info learn to improve it.com. That is info learn to improve it.com.
Erin (24:54):
This way we know it's from you. We will be drawing one name per month to send an Improve IT podcast Care Package to this care package is the Bees Nays. It will include branded goodies from the show, some of our favorite books and products from previous guests in a few more surprises. So thank you for the opportunity to tell you Thank you. And if you want to thank me by leaving a review, then I will say thank you by potentially sending you a care package that shows our full appreciation. So thank you for thanking me and we thank you will really like the goodies in the care package. Okay, back to improving it. Thanks. Love this book so much. And one of my favorite quotes is, I am convinced presence is the foundation of joy. You cannot feel joy if you're not present and connected to the here and now, which I felt so deeply. And tell me, I did you also recommend a Joy list in the book?
Heather (26:03):
Yes, I think, I think so. I think, did I call it the Bliss list? Yes. <laugh>, does that sound right?
Erin (26:09):
Yes. And I did that. And you know what's so funny? I've been, cause I, I've been reading several books simultaneously. I was like, I think this was Heather's book. I wrote one down and it's so funny cuz some of it was so simple. It was like Draw with Jackson who's my three-year-old like color with him. Yeah. Or like go on more walks or yeah, go ride a bike. Go. Cause I live in beautiful sunny state. You live in Colorado, I live in Charleston, South Carolina. Like I need these things, this is why I'm here. And so the, the bliss list was fantastic.
Heather (26:44):
I
Erin (26:44):
Love that. So I wanted to comment on that. But I also wanted to comment on, you also say in the book another quote I loved was, play is vulnerable but it's also joyful, creative and freeing. The overachiever has no role in play. The ego is gone or that inner critic is gone and you are fully in joy. And this is what I do. I use improv as the teaching tool because it gets people to express themselves. It's a vulnerable thing. But why B besides improv? Because that people who listen to the show, y'all know all about it. What do you find people can do to express play in their lives? What are some other things?
Heather (27:30):
I love play so much and I will also say this is something I'm still working on bringing forward. Like I am a really fast follower when it comes to play. Like if someone else kind of initiates it, I'm a real fast follower but I'm trying to be more of a, like a leader <laugh>. Cause I love it so much. So one thing I would say if you fall into that category is like just get around some kids. Like even if you don't have 'em, go borrow some like <laugh>. It's so much fun because kids do it so automatically, you know, especially if they're like under the age of like eight or so. They just play automatically and you can and they're not gonna, they want you to play with them. So you can start to let go of that. And then I think too, just looking for and noticing opportunities when you want to be playful and letting down your guard and allowing yourself to do that.
Heather (28:16):
And I'll <laugh>, I kind of can't believe I'm gonna tell the story but I'm gonna tell it because it's just such an example. I had a date on the day before Halloween. I was going hiking with someone. It was a first date so I'd never met this person before. And it was the day before Halloween and we'd had a video call a couple days before that. And in this video call we'd kind of commented about costumes like from a Halloween perspective, you know, like dressing up in costumes and how fun this is on Halloween. And about 20 minutes before I was gonna leave for the date, I was like, I'm gonna dress up in a costume. Yes. Like how fun. I was hoping
Erin (28:49):
That is where you were gonna go, Heather? Yes,
Heather (28:52):
<Laugh>. And it was so much fun. I dressed in like an eighties type costume with leggings that were very, you know, hiking, comfortable, appropriate, but definitely had, you know, my hair up in a like a side ponytail situation with scrunchies. And I had so much fun and like regardless of that guy, I was gonna have fun on that date because I was bringing so much of that play and it felt kind of vulnerable. I was like, I don't know, how is he gonna think I'm crazy for showing up in this costume? He's never met me before. But it also just felt so fun and it brought such a different energy. Like I was laughing as I was driving to the trail and I thought, how often do I do that? Like laugh to myself on the way to a date or any type of gathering. And it just brought such a great energy and it was recognizing in the moment like, hey I, I kind of wanna do this, maybe I should <laugh>. Yes. And I think most of the time we shut down that voice. Like most of the time that kind of like, ooh, I kind of wanna sing here. I kind of wanna play here. I kind of wanna dress up here. Whatever that thing is, we shut it down cuz we're like, we're adults. We're not supposed to do that. We're not, that's not the rules that we're supposed to follow. But really letting that down can bring a lot of joy and in connection like play brings connection as well. So,
Erin (30:10):
Oh my god. Yes. I love that story. Thank you for sharing that. That is the best. I hope there was a second date because even if there wasn't, even if there wasn't Heather, you had fun. And so that's what matters. Like I just, I think it's so, and that's why I use improv as a teaching tool because I watch my little three-year-old just play, play, play, play, play. And there's not a judgment in the world from him about what he's doing. And as adults we just let that fear, that fear of failure, that numbing mechanism of no, I can't be this way, just allow, hold us back really from really living that bliss list. Okay. So I also love, which is one of my favorite topics, you talk about the fear of failure failure and how it only makes sense that fear rises when you slow down.
Erin (31:02):
You say your numbing mechanism, overworking, which is ding, ding, ding, the way I disassociate is gone. You have no barrier to feel the fear. So you go back to your old pattern of overworking. So I love that message. I mean I was like, she is she, this is the trip. She is literally in my journals, Heather is reading my journals, I'm being watched. But why <laugh>? Why is slowing down feeling the fear and processing it so important? And you and I you know, talked a little bit before the show about how not processing emotions can lead to physical pain. I mean, why is it so important to slow down and process in the moment?
Heather (31:50):
Oh my gosh, I have so many things to say here. I'm trying to like sort out whatever I wanna say. I know, I know. Be
Erin (31:55):
Like a whole other show. I
Heather (31:56):
Know. It absolutely could. Yeah. And I'll say in my second, my next book that's will be coming out in the fall, I have a chapter called Feel Your Feelings cuz this has been so important to me and it's important for releasing burnout and it's important for, it's just knowing how to let ourselves be with ourselves and feel what we are feeling is it's so important on so many levels. So yes, I think a couple of, so two different things come up here for me. So one is, you know, that that slowing down and allowing ourselves to be with ourselves is a gateway back into ourselves. Yes. So really like letting yourself, and we aren't really taught how to do this. Like, oh I'm really sad right now. I'm really frustrated, I'm angry. And oftentimes we get rules going back to these rules that we really, particularly anger.
Heather (32:40):
Like we aren't supposed to show anger or we aren't supposed to show these or, or I shouldn't be too much or I can't really show people what I'm really feeling. And, and sometimes that even translates into like I'm really uncomfortable even feeling it on my own with no people around. And so allowing ourselves to get uncomfortable and just sit naming our emotions is really helpful when you can. And if you can't name it, if you aren't sure what you're feeling, you can name what you're feeling in your body. That can be really helpful and it's just a gateway back into yourself. But yes, what you said also around the physical pain is so fascinating. And I'm gonna speak only from my own experience here cuz I'm, I'm not a doctor but I can tell you that without a doubt holding my emotions in has been connected to feeling physical pain.
Heather (33:25):
And so a quick story here that is just so mind blowing for me, it was mind blowing for me when it happened. It's so illustrative of this. Several years ago I threw out my back and I think the throwing out the back was physically related, not emotionally related, but it got about 80% better and then it just kind of stalled out. You know, I was otherwise healthy in my thirties in good shape. And I was like, why? Why am I not just getting fully better? Like what is going on here? And then in the, so while this was going on at this time period, my job had changed. So this was in, I was in transition of trying to figure out what I was gonna do because my job had changed to something I truly hated. That's really the only way <laugh> to describe it. Yeah.
Heather (34:06):
And my friends knew. It wasn't like I was totally keeping it to myself, but no one at work knew. So every single day at work I just put on this smiling face kind of this ultimate people pleasing of like this performance of everything's great. And of course the overachiever in me was like, I'm gonna do my utmost to be perfect in everything regardless of how I feel about it. <Laugh> Yeah. And I'm not gonna communicate any of those feelings. So I was holding them all in, you know, like nine hours a day at work. And finally one day in a conversation with my manager, I had a little mini breakdown and I finally told her what was going on and I said, you know, like I need you to know how hard this is for me. And we had this just very honest conversation and on my walk home that day, cause I walked between work and home, my walk home that day, I was like, oh, my back doesn't hurt at all.
Heather (34:58):
Yeah. For the first time in like three months, I told the truth and my back doesn't hurt. And there is so much to that. So I don't wanna say all pain is related to emotions, but there for me for sure has been a connection in when I let go, when I release, when I both honestly just within myself and communicate what needs to be communicated to others. My body feels lighter, it feels less tight, that I feel less pain, all of those things. So they are for sure and are connected with me. And I know it sounds like you've had similar, similar experiences as well.
Erin (35:35):
Yes. Oh my gosh. And it's, it's a, a phenomenon. I mean really, I, I could just, we, this is a part of this healing series, but it's truly an epidemic in our world because I think a lot of doctors, and I'll never forget the, the reason I went through this whole journey is because I was having back and shoulder pain and I went to the chiropractor and he goes, how's your mental health? And then I just spewed like everything that went through my life in the past five years, he was like, okay, we need, that was his first question. If every doctor started with that question, can you imagine like how less pain we would have in this world? And I just, I this your book is of what, what I loved how it kind, I'm not gonna spoil it because people still have to read it <laugh>, but what I loved how it accumulated for you is into this new version of Heather. And I think you talked about like if people come to your house in like 10 years and there's this like really cool, calm, collected person at home, right? Didn't you say Yes. Am I, am I making this up I or something?
Heather (36:39):
Well I definitely talked about my future self cuz many years ago, like many years ago, what, well before this book, probably 13 years ago at this point, maybe even more, I did a future self visioning as part of the coaching training that I Yes. So I took, took part. Yes. And in that visioning, they ask you to name who your future self is and Radiance was the name that came to mind immediately. Yes. And so I feel like the last, you know, many years of, of my life has been this journey towards radiance and part of that has been believing in my own radiance and the light that, that we all have within us, but that often gets shut down by these rules that we are handed. And just really letting that go, but also that calmness, that light, that, that essence of, of radiance and really leaning into that and, and I'm, am I a hundred percent there a hundred percent of the time?
Heather (37:30):
No, definitely not. But I can tell you, looking back, I experienced both that feeling of more radiance as well as just freedom in my life that I absolutely did not experience before. And it's because of that disconnection of my worth from first this, this book was about productivity and achievement and then, you know, the journey beyond that has been related to body and people pleasing and a whole bunch of other rules that are out there as well. So this book was like part one and you'll get a whole nother story in part two, which will be coming out in the fall. And that's what I'm bringing into my speaking engagements too, because I want other people to recognize these rules that we are handed often, which are sometimes especially for women rooted in bias and discrimination, and then some of which are general cultural messages that we get and how do we recognize those so we can all experience more joy and freedom and create more impact with our voices at work and beyond.
Erin (38:29):
I'm taking a deep breath. Radiance just entered the building. She is inside my body. Yes, Heather, it's truly like when you said that in the book that v it was a very, you did a wonderful job of portraying radi radiance. And that is who I strive to be. I'm still the person when you come to my house, it's spotless. People think that I have a showing for re like we're gonna sell our home because that's how I'm such a perfectionist that I need everything put away immaculate, no dust bunnies. I want people to enter my home, my space, my presence with that feeling of light, with that feeling of calm. And so I just love that exercise. I loved this book. I encourage anyone listening to get this book and the new one coming out this fall, which will, which we'll have you back at some point, Heather, to talk about the new book. Okay, that would be awesome. That would be amazing too. And I wanna end with this question. So we always say improve it. That's the name of our company or name of our podcast that it is whatever your purpose is, what is Heather's it? Why are you here? Which is a loaded question, but what is your it? Yeah,
Heather (39:46):
I love it though. I mean I think I said it to a certain degree before is that I want everyone to experience more joy, impact and freedom in their lives. Because I believe that when we, when we break the rules that have been handed to us and reconnect to who we are, not only are we gonna experience more joy, freedom in our personal lives, but that's how we are going to break down the bigger rules and systems and discrimination and inequity. And so I believe that it is a, you know, internal and external thing that's happening at the same time. Because when we individually start to break those rules, we speak up more and we are an example to others without even having to do anything or try anything. It's like, oh we, we are sending off this energy and then, and, but we also do challenge more directly as well. And so I would say, you know, it's this combination of this internal joy and freedom and fulfillment and impact which will then also break down systems and structures and discrimination and bias that absolutely need to be broken down.
Erin (40:46):
I freaking love it. Keep doing this work. You're, it is so impactful. Tell any, improve it people listening where they can get this amazing book, an Overachievers Guide to Breaking the Rules, how to Let Go of Perfect and Live Your Truth and anywhere else they could find you.
Heather (41:03):
Absolutely. So the book is if you want, if you're in the US assigned hardcover copy is available on my website, which is heather weeley.com. And there you can also find all my speaking info blog, just anything, anything about me and my work that you want to find is on my website, heather ley.com. And then you can also get the audiobook ebook and paperback on Amazon most places across the world. So those are the two best places to get the book and find out more information about me. And then LinkedIn is without a doubt, my number one social media platform I share there pretty frequently and I love to connect with people on, on LinkedIn. It's for sure my favorite platform. So that's definitely, and it, to be fair also right now it's pretty much my only platform because it just felt like, it felt like too much. I, I technically have an Instagram account but like I haven't looked at it and I think two months at this point. So LinkedIn, <laugh>. Linkedin.
Erin (41:54):
Linkedin. We'll drop it in the show
Heather (41:55):
Now. Simplify things.
Erin (41:56):
Yes, I like that. Break the rules Heather. Break the rules. <Laugh>. That's right. Pick one. Okay, well I am so honored to know you. I'm so happy our pass crossed. I'm so happy that this book crossed my nightstand. It's so funny. Isn't it funny to think about a book? You're like so intimate. I'm reading in bed. I'm with you in bed, Heather. Okay. It's true. It's so crazy. But I'm so grateful that your work exists. You exist. I'm so happy you took time to come on this show. Thank you so much.
Heather (42:24):
Thank you for having me. This has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you.
Erin (42:36):
I could go on forever about this interview. Truly. I just adore Heather. I think she is phenomenal. This book came to me at the perfect time and as part of the self-healing series, I hope that you take heed, go to the link in the show notes, get a copy of her book. And if you don't purchase the book, let me just give you a tangible that you could take away from today's show. We talked a lot about slowing down feeling, processing our emotions, figuring out how did we get to become this people pleaser, non boundaries center person, recovering perfectionist, you name it, I'll say it person, how did we get here? But we also in that slowing down, are able to reconnect to that inner God, which we talk about in the show and really understand what brings us joy. So one of my favorite takeaways from her book was the Bliss List, which is a list of things that bring you joy.
Erin (43:43):
I want you to make your own version of your bliss list. Start with this, who brings you joy? Write down all of those people. Then write down what activities bring you joy. Then surround yourself with those people and put yourself in situations where you can be more joyful. It's hard sometimes I have to tell myself rest is productive. Truly as an overachiever, it is really hard for me sometimes to slow down, to not think of the activity that I'm doing as unproductive. So that joy list for me has completely flipped the script. That bliss list list, I should say has completely flipped the script. When I am in play with Jackson, when I'm coloring, when we are riding bikes, when we are outside, just going down slides and playing on the playground, I find that to be some of the most productive moments of my day now.
Erin (44:49):
Where as before I would think of the to-do list and how I need to get back to it. So if you take anything away from today, just know that in slowing down you'll find that inner guide and you'll live a life of joy and feel so much more freedom. As always, I am rooting for you. Keep failing, keep improving because this world, you know what it needs that very special it that only you can bring. I'll see you next time friends. Bye. Hey friend, did you enjoy today's show? If so, head on over to iTunes to rate and subscribe. So you never miss an episode. Now, did I mention that when you leave a five star review of the Improve It podcast, an actual team of humans does a happy dance? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's right. So leave a review for us on iTunes, screenshot it and send me an email at info learn to improve it.com. I'll send you a personalized video back as a thank you. Thanks so much for listening. Improve It Peeps. I'll see you next Wednesday.